At What Point Do Our Nation’s Heroes Become Their Fellow Citizen’s Enemies

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Nations rise and fall as they have done since the beginning of time. Some fear that our nation, the United States of America, is preparing for the final spasm that could literally kick this country over the edge of oblivion and add our sad chapter to the larger story of the history of once great nations that self-destructed. Depending on what you believe the facts are about our current state, this may or may not be in our future. Assuming it is; there are wide differences in opinion about how long this final act may take. All I know for sure is that if we do collapse, as every other nation in our economic and moral situation has before us, it won’t be pretty. In fact if it is anywhere half as bad as I can imagine it will be – considering our current sorry state as humans, it will be awful.

In addition to threatening economic worries and the moral decay forced upon us ever more with each day, we have also heard reports of Jade Helm and rumors around what that secretive military exercise could possibly mean for the future of our country and our military’s role in all sorts of imagined scenarios. From rounding up dissidents, to executing people on the “Red List”, confiscating firearms and on and on. The sense of foreboding from this and our economic news is palpable to me and countless others. Even if none of these rumors were true right now, in a true collapse it only stands to reason – as it has everywhere else, that the nation’s military will absolutely play a role in protecting the government in power. Their role of providing for the common defense will be turned inward and not toward some hostile nation on our shores. If the people are angry at the government, when the straw finally breaks, at some point in the escalation they will have to face the government’s protective arm in the form of their sons and daughters actively in service.

In the worst case scenario, our military forces would be actively hostile towards the citizenry the are supposed to defend. This would no doubt be deemed necessary to “maintain order”. Martial law could be declared, your rights under the constitution could be taken away and your civil liberties, due process, the rule of law thrown out the window under the auspices of continuity of government. None of this is hearsay; the plans for actions just like this are already codified. If you don’t believe me, look up Executive Order 11000 or Executive Order 11921. Those are only two of many executive orders that already have been planned to take absolute control over everything in our country. You can bet that if they are implemented you won’t get your say about how they are implemented. There will be no Supreme Court decisions arguing the merits of these orders. You will simply be forced to comply.

And who is going to enforce these executive orders? Who else is there but the military, police, DHS, National Guard and volunteers chosen for their willingness to help “maintain order”. At a certain point, if we have descended to this level, the military – those same sons and daughters could be your enemy. If that time comes, what do you expect to do?

You can’t win against the military

We currently have the world’s best funded, trained and supported military. Our soldiers have benefited from our nation’s wealth and prosperity. That wealth seems to cry out for war though because we have been actively engaged in conflict somewhere on the earth for more years than I care to count. This constant rotation of battle assignments has trained a large force of soldiers, marines, seamen and airmen to kill without hesitation. Drones destroy targets from high in the air, piloted by people 7000 miles away from the action in some cases. For them, this must be almost like a video game. At some point is it realistic to believe the same drones will be patrolling our skies and targeting civilians in our country who have been labeled as domestic terrorists?

Are these photos used to scare people?
Are these photos used to scare people?

One of the common rebuttals I read in the comments anytime someone is talking about any opposition action against a rogue, tyrannical government is about how futile and useless it would be to even try any resistance. It is because of those well-trained, funded and supported soldiers I spoke of above. You would be foolish to try to stop them and it is true that Revolutions usually don’t end well for the people.

And that is part of my reasoning behind writing this post.

We always seem to be focused on the actions our military is taking that we believe are in direct contradiction of our liberties. We worry about trucks loaded on train tracks and how we could receive a kicked in door in the middle of the night and be whisked away to some FEMA prison camp in the dark or worse, summarily executed in our living room. We see pictures of FEMA coffins and worry about who is going to be filling those boxes. It may come down to your age, your upbringing or your personal value system, but if you want to be prepared to survive I think it helps to consider a wide array of possible outcomes. It may be necessary, God forbid that you will have to fight for your freedom. Your situation and our future may dictate who you are fighting against.

The courts will no longer help you and justice is a quaint relic

Maybe I am a pessimist when I say the game is rigged. You can’t get politicians to listen to their constituents any more. They simply don’t care, because you don’t pay their salaries. Mega corporations are paying your senators and representatives. Why should they listen to what you want? The judicial system on one level is highly upset about Soccer in other countries, but they could give a rat’s ass about the IRS targeting opposition political groups on our soil or thousands of immigrants pouring over our borders each month. On the other level courts rewrite or create laws out of thin air in direct contradiction to the voters (the citizens’) wishes. All of the sources we use to depend on for justice are tainted. They don’t work for you and me anymore and I think they are getting actively hostile towards us to boot.

There will come a day I fear where we simply will not be able to take to Facebook or blogs like the Prepper Journal and complain. We won’t be able to go on with our day job, checking Drudge Report for the latest news. At some point we may be forced to fight for our survival and unfortunately, the likely combatants would be our soldiers. The people we hail as heroes for going to war for us. The heroes who are valiantly serving today and who likely have only love for their country as their motivation for sacrificing so much.

Would there ever be a point you stopped going along with tyranny?
Would there ever be a point you stopped going along with tyranny?

These heroes’ could be our enemies under the right circumstances. Could some defect or refuse to follow orders that hurt or imprison their families or neighbors? Sure I think there could be some of that but our entire military won’t walk off the job. I suspect there would be a shocking and elaborate reason why they feel just in doing what they are told. When it falls to them to enforce the executive orders to take over and control all forms of transportation, mobilize citizens into work brigades, relocate communities, take over all food resources and farms you may find yourself at odds with these sons and daughters. You may find out that your old neighbors are responsible for placing you into internment camps if you quietly go along. What will you do then?

As a former member of this country’s armed forces and someone who has had many relatives serve with honor as well, I don’t say this lightly. I am sure I will offend someone with this post. Others will accuse me of heresy, but I think it deserves a discussion if for nothing else than to hopefully spark a conversation. We have been so focused on what we are afraid the military will do to us. Maybe we should make them think about what  tens of millions of desperate, frightened people – their neighbors, could do to them? Their job is to defend us, not kill us, not lock us up. Maybe our heroes will listen now that the rest of our government has stopped.

There is a quote that has always struck me as very sad and telling from Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn in his book The Gulag Archipelago. Solzhenitsyn was a Russian who was sentenced to 8 years in a Soviet prison camp for essentially writing things about Stalin that the government didn’t like. During this time in Soviet Russia, to stifle dissent, millions were killed or sent to prison camps. In this passage Solzhenitsyn is talking about regret that everyone felt because they simply went along with this tyranny and didn’t oppose it.

 “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?… The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If…if…We didn’t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation…. We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”  – Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Preparing does you no good if you give up everything and march like sheep to the slaughter. There has to be a survival instinct inside you somewhere should you need to use it. I don’t know if that day will ever come, but if it does you may have to look past national pride. We may be the images on the TV that other countries watch of a people fighting for freedom. I don’t want that to happen, but if it does I can’t let who my oppressors are affect my resistance. Would you?

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Kula Farmer
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Kula Farmer

“Our nations wealth and prosperity”

Thats sad,

The country is OVER 18 TRILLION IN THE HOLE
Thats what they admit,
Its way way higher,

There is NO wealth or prosperity,

Lonerider
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Lonerider

So in this scenario the question goes to all of the armed forces, police, firefighters and everybody else who the government would call upon to carry out those orders. Would all of them follow those executive orders against their family and neighbors?

explorer
Guest
explorer

Yes they would and they will.

vocalpatriot
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vocalpatriot

no they wouldn’t and they won’t.

Illini Warrior
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Illini Warrior

Hasn’t been one incident where a cop has said – NO!!! – to putting their laser on totally unarmed civilians – when ordered ….

their paycheck and pension means more to them than your life …..

LWJ
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LWJ

Yes I agree LE has been trained and equipped to be a quasi land army. They are and will be the biggest threat.

EgbertThrockmorton1
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EgbertThrockmorton1

IlliniWarrior: Absolutely, a false statement and unquantifiable. Yes, I spent a career in law enforcement PRIOR to widespread deployment of the TASER system. The TASER is a viable tool for keeping individual officer’s injuries to a minimum when faced with a non-pain compliant suspect, especially those under the influence of alcohol, controlled substances, or in the throes of psychotic frenzy. I WISH I could have had a TASER very early on in my career, because it would have spared several suspects the injuries they received when I had to intervene between them and their intended victims they were severely beating… Read more »

vocalpatriot
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vocalpatriot

their hasn’t been an incident of suppression of the citizenry yet, either. If I recall the Cliven Bundy case correctly, when the citizens showed in large numbers, the government, which had the power to suppress, decided to back down.

Jon
Guest
Jon

As a LEO I would say “no” for the very reason that we would have to go against our neighbors and family. Unlike soldier we must live among the people we serve. The truth is the country would fall into Chaos because there would be insufficient personnel. I would not discount a military coup either if a President attempted to seize absolute power.

LWJ
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LWJ

The real reason why LE would be up shit creek is mathematical to say the least. Out here cops are outnumberd at least 9 to one by the armed locals. If LE were to ever lose the consent of the people, they would be overwhelmed pretty quickly. Living amongst the people only makes it that much easier to isolate them and cut the head off the snake.

LWJ
Guest
LWJ

The Army and Marine Corps are to small to lock down the entire country. However FISH and CHIPS are the way to drag down a highly trained force.

Mike Lashewitz
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Mike Lashewitz

LOL! You might have to explain that…

LWJ
Guest
LWJ

Fighting in somebodies home, and Causing Havoc in People’s streets. British Army terms for Mout that are more fun to use. Street fighting and house to house negate many advantages the U.S. military would have in an open setting.

We don’t have enough door kickers in the country to secure all of it. The Iron Horse Division (4th ID) is the biggest unit that is somewhat close to us, and 1/3 of it is in Kuwait. With readiness schedules and such only about 1/3 of the BCT’s and Marine battalions are ready to deploy at at given moment.

Pat Henry
Guest

See, I learned something new today!

Mike Lashewitz
Guest
Mike Lashewitz

What I worry about (really) is American Servicemen stranded overseas when the US Government fails. Unable because of planned absence to be home and defend their families from a planned invasion from “inside” the homeland.

Pat Henry
Guest

That is a good point Mike. Fortunately for my family we have one, who through a miracle of bureaucratic idiosyncrasy found out his unit was not deploying for a year to Afghanistan as they were led to believe just recently.

Mike Lashewitz
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Mike Lashewitz

He and you were blessed.

Mike Lashewitz
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Mike Lashewitz

Palpable not palatable. Palatable means tasty or accepting of taste… Palpable means you can sense/feel it… Sailors are not trained to kill, in fact very few actually shoot a weapon in their Careers. Yes there are a few but in general less than 10% actually learn to shoot. Because they never touch feet on the ground in a war zone. That is what the Marines are for. Marines only fight the first 10 miles or so because the Army and Air Force go in from there. Also most all of the support positions in the USAF and US Army go… Read more »

Pat Henry
Guest

Thanks for the correction Mike. I know now that I really rushed this one because Mark already had me correct another issue. Usually I reread each post a couple of times minimum. Auto correct isn’t always the best thing and it’s very clear I need to get an editor. Great points about training and resources. I hope you are right and as you mention it is always a good idea to be proficient in your weapon. I was watching that show Life Below Zero last night and these people all live in Alaska and basically live a subsistence life getting… Read more »

EgbertThrockmorton1
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EgbertThrockmorton1

Pat, the photo posted above of the MRAPS in rail transit, are indeed southbound from the Port of Oakland (CA) along the Southern Pacific Rail Line enroute to Hunter-Liggett Army Reserve Base.(It’s a long term storage depot in Central California). That long “bend” in the rail line is just north of that Depot rail siding and is well know throughout CA rail junkies, of which I confess to being one! Hope this helps!

Pat Henry
Guest

Thanks for the clarification Egbert!

EgbertThrockmorton1
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EgbertThrockmorton1

Pat, this IS the best blog on preparedness that I’ve found. Please keep it up, and no, I’m not the guy that blows smoke. Keep on challenging the status quo!

Pat Henry
Guest

I am honored you would say that Egbert, thank you very much!

Mike Lashewitz
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Mike Lashewitz

I offer for free, proof reading. I understand busy. So glad I am not any more….

Curtis128
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Curtis128

I have to not only agree with much of what Mike has posted regarding the lack of range time for big Army, but also, in general I would almost say the last decade of war here in Afghan has in some ways made the military less effective. For 30+ years after Vietnam, the military based a lot of its training doctrine and lessons learned on jungle warfare. This generation is (for obvious reasons) focused on desert warfare. If/ when the day comes that the Fed unleashes the military on the US populace, it will be without doubt terrible for the… Read more »

Mike Lashewitz
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Mike Lashewitz

Bromance going here! Thank you for your service brother. There is also one thing that the military has forgotten. ECW, ECCW, ECCCW and it goes on. One thing the military trained me in and improved upon is you will never hear the bang. Which is why the DHS labeled us terrorists.

John
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John

Hey Mac, as a Marine I can tell you I saw much more of Iraq than just the first 10 miles. Northern Iraq is much more than 10 miles from the Gulf.

Mike Lashewitz
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John
Guest
John

Eh, wasn’t exactly what I was talking about. We were there for extended periods for more direct missions.

EgbertThrockmorton1
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EgbertThrockmorton1

Pat, AS a fellow veteran (USAF-Cold War-SAC trained Nuke Puke), I have total faith and confidence IN my fellow military alumni as well as the current members (the actual ground pounders) currently serving this Republic. I am not “convinced” that the various National Guard members are as loyal to their Constitutional oaths as the regular military and Active Reserves, this is ONLY because I’ve had precious little actual interaction with NG members.(definitely NOT a slam on them) I cannot fathom the current Administration being able to “pull off” the conspiracies surrounding and swirling around Jade Helm 15 at all. This… Read more »

BobW
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BobW

Having supported National Guardsmen at various times in my life, I can tell you that all the National Guardsmen and women I ever worked with have more honest patriotism than most of the Army. They sacrifice in ways the Army can’t understand. For every 12 month deployment the Army went on, the National Guard did 15-17 months away from home, including those 12 months in country. They sacrifice their annual vacations to do their annual training exercises. When I supported a unit inventory, we were stunned to find M3 grease guns, 1911s, and M16A1s in their armory. This was at… Read more »

LWJ
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LWJ

I agree if our military were made up foreign soldiers it would not enjoy the support it has now. When the military is not composed of US citizens it just becomes an occupying force to be dealt with.

EgbertThrockmorton1
Guest
EgbertThrockmorton1

Appreciate the perspective! Thank you!

Pat Henry
Guest

Yes, I have thought about that possibility too Bob of using Aliens. Join up and we’ll give you citizenship. Or Prisoners, join up and get to kill people without jail. Gang Bangers, join up and we’ll give you these small towns to control.

John
Guest
John

Which is why I defend my family, supplies, and territory with extreme measures. They don’t leave on their feet, then they leave in the dirt.

Pat Henry
Guest

Thanks for the comments Egbert and you never have to apologize for the breadth of your response. One of the things I like to think TPJ offers our community is if nothing else, a place to state your peace.

John
Guest
John

Amen Brother. I can’t see the new guys doing squirrelly things like this either. Semper Fi.

Paul
Guest
Paul

Oath Keepers has been working on this exact issue for about 6 years. We seek to remind and reaffirm the oaths taken by our military, LEO’s and First Responders to support and defend The Constitution a well a our 10 orders we will not obey.

Pat Henry
Guest

Thank you Paul and that is a great point. To be honest, I haven’t been keeping up much with Oath Keepers. I know of the concept but nothing much more than that.

BobW
Guest
BobW

It is my personal belief that the country so many fought and died for is gone. Patriotism and loyalty are bygone notions left in the 1950s. When wall street openly corrupted Congress, and we sat idly by drinking some formerly American swill, our entire system was subverted to work against the ‘common man.’ From wall street, where only the rich make money, to the judicial, where only the rich get ‘justice’, to congress, where only the rich get heard, the entire system is rigged against what was once called the ‘common man.’ Now, the ‘common man’ is uncommon. Working hard,… Read more »

Pat Henry
Guest

You can’t tell it from what you wrote Bob….:) I am right there with you brother.

Matt Wise
Guest
Matt Wise

The biggest threat internally we have to worry about is dhs second is Leos. Hate to say it but that’s how I see it. This will be mostly in the areas of dense population though. Leos in the small towns won’t go against their own people for many reasons. One being self preservation. What WILL go down though is that there will be instigated clashes between these groups and the people. The government controlled media will spin it as unmanageable and the greatest threat to the free world then the UN will be called on to “help” . This is… Read more »

John
Guest
John

Okay, so I am not one to really bring my military history to the fore, but this article really enhances the need for such. If we (the community at large) believe that the Armed Forces of the United States of America would en masse flock to join with each other for the gun confiscation and elimination of our civil liberties, you have bought a 3 week old bag of tofu thinking it was fresh from the store rice and beans. Most (though I admit not all) military members are as common sense as you and I. We were not trained… Read more »

Pat Henry
Guest

Fair points John, but what if Martial Law is declared legally? What if some terrorist attack prompts congress to give the president authorities that go against the beliefs that most of the military members you mention would abhor? It would have force of law and be technically legal? Do you think anything would be different?

John
Guest
John

It would very much depend on the scope of the situation, what the situation that got the military involved, the civil liberties suspended, the length of the suspension, etc. For example, if martial law had been declared in Baltimore during the riots, absolutely it would have been implimented with the support of the military. But if, for gits and shiggles, a law was passed that banned firearms from private ownership? That would never have the support of the military, and they would not help enforce it, and I very much suspect that the majority would side with those who would… Read more »

vocalpatriot
Guest
vocalpatriot

the U.S. military will not be the issue, dickless. the u.n. will.